gasokie
Champion Author
Oklahoma
Posts:3,442
Points:1,323,805
Joined:May 2007
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 9:34:02 PM
Businesses, especially corporations (those evil things are owned by us, the shareholders many of whom own IRAs or pay into retirement funds etc)go where they can make money. Their owners (us) demand it. Some can make more money overseas, costing thousands and thousands of good jobs in the good old USA.
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123cowboy
Champion Author
Maine
Posts:1,833
Points:403,570
Joined:Mar 2011
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 9:12:33 AM
Get rid of ethanol....
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JCUBE
Champion Author
Michigan
Posts:8,549
Points:1,911,220
Joined:Aug 2003
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 8:54:46 AM
get rid of Obozo and the rest of the clowns in Washington...take the Shrubs directive and can it
[Edited by: JCUBE at 5/8/2012 8:54:59 AM EST]
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JCUBE
Champion Author
Michigan
Posts:8,549
Points:1,911,220
Joined:Aug 2003
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 8:54:45 AM
get rid of Obozo and the rest of the clowns in Washington...take the Shrubs directive and can it
http://66.70.86.94/FetchImage.ashx?key=YAWNTb0vhPwadp1UWsHLWA%3d%3d&id=%2bBagiuhY%2fQcbAvdMYpFV1HfsmVVmJsF7L9JU81gVmxE%3d
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albert2008
Champion Author
Winnipeg
Posts:7,332
Points:1,477,010
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 8:25:22 AM
not good
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albert2008
Champion Author
Winnipeg
Posts:7,332
Points:1,477,010
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 8:24:53 AM
not nice
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gasokie
Champion Author
Oklahoma
Posts:3,442
Points:1,323,805
Joined:May 2007
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Message Posted: May 7, 2012 10:03:58 PM
So will power plants. Why should they stay open? the EPA has harrassed and bullied PEC until they now plan on closing the hugh plants at Tulsa and Okmulgee, Ok. I understand others in bordering states will be closed too rather than switch from coal to gas. When asked where they would rebuild or what they would do for power, the answer (last week) was nothing. "We'll just buy wholesale electricity off the grid." Ya know? I don't think that's going to work well for us the consumers on hot July afternoons when the temps go well above 100 degrees day after day. Hello expensive and scarce electricity. Hello brownouts! Goodby plentiful cheap power.
There were afternoons last summer in Kansas and Oklahoma where the load was lost due to overdemand. Texas already had the problem.
All I can say now is: "Good grief!" Where are the grownups?
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ManOfLeisureII
Champion Author
Philadelphia
Posts:1,854
Points:450,900
Joined:Jan 2012
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Message Posted: May 7, 2012 6:12:37 PM
Fewer refineries = higher gasoline prices.
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Donatelo
Champion Author
Dayton
Posts:1,115
Points:290,865
Joined:Apr 2011
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Message Posted: May 7, 2012 6:08:45 PM
ok
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rjhenn
Champion Author
Des Moines
Posts:22,414
Points:2,226,400
Joined:Aug 2005
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Message Posted: May 7, 2012 5:09:16 PM
Gas4Gore - "Well you all, let's have President Barack Hussein Obama build new refineries. He is for self sufficiency, right, right."
Apparently, we already have more refinery capacity than we need, since we've become a net exporter of refined products.
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rickfro
All-Star Author
San Diego
Posts:678
Points:327,520
Joined:Nov 2008
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Message Posted: May 7, 2012 12:24:04 AM
get rid of ethanol additives. find real alternatives.
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geepy
All-Star Author
Long Island
Posts:779
Points:520,745
Joined:Aug 2009
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:53:43 PM
don't build the pipe;ine to help.. obumma has done everything to stop, slow or kill jobs
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Gas4Gore
Champion Author
Detroit
Posts:2,401
Points:419,875
Joined:Jan 2010
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 2:39:06 PM
Well you all, let's have President Barack Hussein Obama build new refineries. He is for self sufficiency, right, right.
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albert2008
Champion Author
Winnipeg
Posts:7,332
Points:1,477,010
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:27:49 AM
time will tell
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danny1460
Rookie Author
Atlanta
Posts:84
Points:302,430
Joined:May 2007
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Message Posted: May 5, 2012 10:30:09 PM
Here's 1 that won't! The Phillps66/conoco refinery that Delta airlines bought.. Other huge companies like railroads or other airlines should buy the closing refinerys so the oil companies won't get chance to rip them off
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Donatelo
Champion Author
Dayton
Posts:1,115
Points:290,865
Joined:Apr 2011
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Message Posted: May 3, 2012 9:40:44 AM
not good
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gasbuddy111
Rookie Author
San Diego
Posts:45
Points:24,705
Joined:Nov 2008
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 11:12:36 PM
Most of this sounds as if it was simply just made up.
One thing rings resoundingly true however and maybe not by intention. To whit the statement "the issue here is essentially the government picking winners and losers". That 'issue' is the cause of all of the staggering price increases ever since the government got into the oil business.
Government is not meant to pick winners and losers in any market, especially in the USA. That's period with a capital P-E-R-I-O-D!.!
If you don't believe so, look it up in your communist manifesto.
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gasokie
Champion Author
Oklahoma
Posts:3,442
Points:1,323,805
Joined:May 2007
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 6:26:46 PM
Well...since delta bought that one refinery up in Pa perhaps we can get American to get one and how 'bout Southwest?
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albert2008
Champion Author
Winnipeg
Posts:7,332
Points:1,477,010
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 8:37:09 AM
time will tell
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honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
Posts:18,580
Points:1,605,520
Joined:Nov 2008
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 6:38:51 AM
EtOH (aka ethanol or ethyl alcohol) never was the answer. If it were, the question posed was never the right one.
In the end the consumer gets shafted worse than ever.
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jferrara41
All-Star Author
Pennsylvania
Posts:598
Points:110,665
Joined:Apr 2012
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 5:25:56 AM
Yet another attempt to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. We will never get out of this hole were in by electing the same Bozo's every election. Stop the regulation and find real solutions...
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TXryder
Champion Author
Texas
Posts:2,686
Points:428,730
Joined:Jan 2012
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 2:46:54 AM
Just another one of Bush's idiotic moves without realizing the consequences. Its no wonder he had bankrupted his little oil company four times in a row.
Corn prices are running very high thanks to the ethanol demand and the fact that the Chinese are importing mega tons of US corn this year. Result is more ethanol but not cheaper fuel, Higher livestock feed costs for those farmers raising animals for commercial meat. Higher food costs for everyone because the cost of producing is passed onto the customer at the grocery store. Ethanol is bad on a motor.
The U.S. has so much crude backed up in storage not being refined because Bush is an ethanol nut!
~ô¿ô~
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Jkent1953
Champion Author
Salt Lake City
Posts:1,971
Points:436,935
Joined:Dec 2011
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 12:19:13 AM
Get away from ethanol. Takes more fuel to produce than it creates. How dumb are we?
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HawaiianGuy
Champion Author
Idaho
Posts:9,507
Points:3,075,680
Joined:May 2003
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 12:19:11 AM
We need to rescind this misguided legislation.
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txrojo2005
All-Star Author
Austin
Posts:761
Points:476,180
Joined:May 2011
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 2:50:06 PM
Get off of ethynol. Use corn as food, not fuel. Go back to basic refining.
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gasokie
Champion Author
Oklahoma
Posts:3,442
Points:1,323,805
Joined:May 2007
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 11:58:15 AM
Oh what would we do without good old Uncle Sam screwing around with our lives?
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Donatelo
Champion Author
Dayton
Posts:1,115
Points:290,865
Joined:Apr 2011
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 9:25:26 AM
ok
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sydb7
Champion Author
Atlanta
Posts:3,542
Points:1,916,730
Joined:Mar 2003
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 9:20:31 AM
Hopefully, we will be using more non-fossil fuels in years ahead; so the loss of refining capacity won't be missed!
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albert2008
Champion Author
Winnipeg
Posts:7,332
Points:1,477,010
Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 8:44:44 AM
time will tell
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honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
Posts:18,580
Points:1,605,520
Joined:Nov 2008
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 5:53:34 AM
funny how the Gas"Buddy" gods get their posts always on the top of the front page "news" blurp. And they stay there. Yet, everyone is taken down (and often removed, read censored) within a day or less. Can we say the masses see some trends here?
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bevmill
Champion Author
Georgia
Posts:2,562
Points:596,545
Joined:Apr 2006
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 10:09:01 PM
ok
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weenerdog
Champion Author
Detroit
Posts:9,441
Points:1,880,890
Joined:Jan 2008
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 5:37:56 PM
really
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gawxnative
All-Star Author
Atlanta
Posts:510
Points:229,265
Joined:Aug 2006
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 3:27:27 PM
HMMMM
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rjhenn
Champion Author
Des Moines
Posts:22,414
Points:2,226,400
Joined:Aug 2005
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 2:22:33 PM
racerdj - "Why, when we nned more capacity?"
Why do we need more capacity, when we're exporting more refined products than we're importing?
What we need is more distributed capacity. Rather than trying to concentrate all of our capacity in the Gulf region, we need to pipe Canadian and Bakken crude to the East Coast, and supply refineries there.
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Alaydown
Champion Author
Los Angeles
Posts:5,093
Points:819,395
Joined:May 2007
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 12:17:01 PM
First, this politically biased article by PD has been posted far longer than any other article posted by others. It needs to go.
The only people who blame Bush and Republicans entirely for the increased ethanol mandate are the liberal propagandists and the ignorant. If you find any Republicans on this website supporting the ethanol mandate, it is probably only because they come from a corn farming state, the corn industry or ethanol industry.
You WILL, however, find LOTS of DemocRATS who support the ethanol mandates. If you support Obama, then you probably support the mandates because he supports them. I will remind you near the end of this post what Obama's positions were on ethanol and cars in 2008 when he ran for president, as posted on his 2008 campaign website.
By the way, the oil industry has ALWAYS BEEN AGAINST the ethanol mandate. In fact, they are co-plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the current expansion to E15 being imposed by Obama's EPA. So stop blaming the oil industry for ethanol. They are still against ethanol.
The history of ethanol (who did what and when) is too long and complex to detail here, but the primary mandates at issue in this article come from legislation in 2005 (only slightly) and 2007.
If you want to blame anyone for the current ethanol mandate, blame Obama and the DemocRATS for expanding it in 2007 and Obama for continuing to push for it today. More on that at the end of the post.
In the 2007 Senate vote, of the 65 "yea" votes, 45 were DemocRATS (including 2 former DemocRATS, now independents, Sanders and Lieberman). There were only 4 DemocRATS of the 27 "Nay" votes.
In the 2007 House vote, "yeas" were 228 DemocRATS, 36 Republicans. "Nays" were 4 DemocRATS and 159 Republicans. So which party is to blame for the increased mandates??? MOSTLY DemocRATS!!!!
Yes, Bush SHOULD SHARE some blame for not vetoing the bills from Congress in 2005 and 2007. The 2005 mandate was bipartisan. At the time, both parties tried to find some way to reduce the consumption of oil. A gallon of ethanol in 2005 was 20 cents less than a gallon of gasoline. The bill was so diverse and complex, it had something for everyone in order for it to pass.
In 2007 though, it was mostly a DemocRAT bill as you can see by the votes in the previous paragraphs. So don't go blaming Republicans for the current increase to E15!
Summary of 2005 and 2007 legislation:
The Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) program was created under the Energy Policy Act (EPAct) of 2005, and established the first renewable fuel volume mandate in the United States. As required under EPAct, the original RFS program (RFS1) required 7.5 billion gallons of renewable- fuel to be blended into gasoline by 2012.
Under the Energy Independence and Security Act (EISA) of 2007, the RFS program was expanded in several key ways:
* EISA expanded the RFS program to include diesel, in addition to gasoline;
* EISA increased the volume of renewable fuel required to be blended into transportation fuel from 9 billion gallons in 2008 to 36 billion gallons by 2022;
* EISA established new categories of renewable fuel, and set separate volume requirements for each one.
* EISA required EPA to apply lifecycle greenhouse gas performance threshold standards to ensure that each category of renewable fuel emits fewer greenhouse gases than the petroleum fuel it replaces.
Now about Obama
As a senator, Obama voted for the ethanol mandate in 2005 and for expanding the ethanol mandate in 2007. During the 2005 energy debate, Obama supported the legislation because it included language that would DOUBLE ethanol demand by 2012.
From Obama's 2008 presidential campaign website:
Ethanol makes it in to Obama’s plan under the fuel efficiency of America’s vehicles. Obama's 2008 campaign website stated that Obama would mandate that all new vehicles are Flexible Fuel Vehicles (FFVs).
Ethanol as part of Obama’s plan -
* Mandate that all new vehicles are Flexible Fuel Vehicles (FFVs)
* 60 billion gallons of “advanced biofuels” by 2030
* “Advanced vehicles” can include plug-in hybrid / FFVs
Obama's stated position:
“Sustainably produced biofuels can create jobs, protect the environment, and help end oil addiction – but only if Americans drive cars that will take such fuels. Obama will work with Congress and auto companies to ensure that all new vehicles have FFV capability – the capability by the end of his first term in office.”
His plan calls for requiring at least 60 billion gallons of “advanced biofuels” by 2030.
Instead, Obama chooses to mandate these requirements without Congress. Today, his EPA has fast-tracked approval of a 50 percent increase in the amount of ethanol that can be mixed into the fuels we use in our cars and other engine-run vehicles. That is a major increase in ethanol (from 10% to 15% total), but the law requires and common sense dictates that the EPA test the new fuel mix in all engines in which it would be used, to make sure it works properly and doesn't damage the engines.
There is a lawsuit against the EPA that alleges the EPA failed to properly test the new fuel mix in all engines in approving use of so-called E15 fuel. Let us hope Obama and the EPA lose the lawsuit!
Preferential treatment of corn-based ethanol would be a boon to the president's electoral chances. Increasing the amount of corn used to fuel our engines will significantly increase demand for corn. Not only will the price of ethanol increase, but also the cost of corn we use for food, animal feed, and all sorts of other important consumer uses will rise as well. Obama's home state of Illinois, Iowa and other corn-belt states are crucial to his re-election strategy. Giving a free-ride to ethanol is sure to curry favor in the Corn Belt.
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bowler360
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:1,955
Points:495,775
Joined:Jun 2011
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 11:24:44 AM
Can't imagine what my kids or grand kids will be paying for Energy. Scarey.
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tomok
Champion Author
Portland
Posts:32,917
Points:2,341,510
Joined:Aug 2006
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 10:45:45 AM
More refineries could close in years ahead! More ethanol, bio fuels and alternative fuels developed, higher fuel prices. More renewable energy produced from solar, wind, hydro, tidal, thermal and/or nuclear.
End taxpayer subsidies for Big oil – pump prices go up.
Limit refinery production or close refineries – pump prices go up.
Natural gas, alternative fuel, renewable energy – pump prices go up.
More EV and Inbred vehicles – pump prices go up.
Higher MPG vehicles – pump prices go up.
Big oil exports fuel to the world that belong to the citizens of this country – pump prices go up.
Barry is reelected – pump prices go up.
^Do anything possible to run this country into the ground and destroy what good we have.
Whatever the size or shape of the vehicle, Produce and ‘Drive’ vehicles with high MPG, are very reliable, have a ‘reasonable’ cost and a good ‘value’ for the money. Consider using other forms of less expensive transportation to lower your cost, if possible!
The price of fuel at the pump is too high!
12/22/2012!
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lgwhitlock
Champion Author
Chico
Posts:7,365
Points:1,681,495
Joined:Jun 2008
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 10:43:25 AM
Yet another reason we should regulate refineries and instead of allowing them to close we should require companies wanting to dump them to instead force a sale which keeps them operating in order to keep a stead fuel supply. We need to limit supply disruptions like this...
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katmandue
Champion Author
Detroit
Posts:8,051
Points:2,130,120
Joined:Jul 2006
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 10:40:30 AM
Just in times to raise prices which makes the Teapartiers/GOBPers HAPPY!
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TerryLee
Champion Author
Ohio
Posts:14,600
Points:2,790,150
Joined:Mar 2004
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 10:24:21 AM
we need some new news
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bluebird1
Champion Author
Toronto
Posts:15,715
Points:3,104,125
Joined:May 2004
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 10:18:44 AM
Who do we blame in Canada, where the closing trend started earlier & now we are net importers of gas??
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bigoilscamsus
Champion Author
Lansing
Posts:1,058
Points:48,265
Joined:Nov 2011
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 9:58:11 AM
Hey Patrick, when are you going to write an article saying that the price of gasoline is down to $3.80 from a year ago when it was $4.13 in the Lansing area as reported on GasBuddy . com today!! --We all know that those prices from a year ago were the ultimate price gouging of our time !! Big Oil is nothing more than an out of control profit machine that can't be stopped!! We need to think out of the box for a solution!! Congress needs to devise away to control Big Oil !! How about a spiraling index tax rate that says as the price of gas goes up, the higher the tax revenue that goes to the Federal government!! This needs to be levied on the actual number of gallons of gas sold at the pump!! This way ,we the people would benefit as the Feds could improve our roads and bridges and lower our debt and improve our economy by having a lower priced gas and a stable economy!!
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Tutootin
Champion Author
Toronto
Posts:10,101
Points:3,073,430
Joined:Jun 2004
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 9:55:37 AM
What gives?! Two articles today that are days old!!!!!
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GatorGuy
Champion Author
Columbia
Posts:2,220
Points:1,203,735
Joined:Jan 2009
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 9:55:10 AM
Unbelievable. Our government needs to get out of the market! Now it's not just speculators manipulating gas prices, but those that we elect to help us out!
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12766
Champion Author
New York
Posts:2,423
Points:1,479,415
Joined:Oct 2008
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 9:48:29 AM
With demand decreasing less refineries will be needed.
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madison8359
Champion Author
Cleveland
Posts:8,979
Points:1,589,295
Joined:Apr 2008
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 9:46:38 AM
Maybe, maybe not.
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BCM1
Champion Author
Pennsylvania
Posts:1,859
Points:781,795
Joined:Jun 2007
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 9:45:30 AM
That's it keep blaming Bush instead of repealing these old regulations.
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AcuraTSX
Champion Author
Ohio
Posts:5,472
Points:2,178,130
Joined:Dec 2005
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 9:42:25 AM
Obama could change requirements again blaming Bush.
But don't hold your breath.
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buzzieNY
Champion Author
Buffalo
Posts:2,872
Points:631,555
Joined:Jun 2011
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 9:41:29 AM
Thank an environmentalist for the increase in prices.
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jrcowell
Champion Author
Wichita
Posts:2,274
Points:482,795
Joined:Oct 2011
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 9:39:52 AM
The evironmental loops a company must jump through to open a new refinery will continue to drive fuel prices up in this country.
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